4.05.2019 Round Table Reality Brief – Andrea Sadegh

Andrea Sadegh on Reality Brief trauma-based mind control – recorded on May 4th, broadcasted on May 8th, 2019 – full transcription

 

Dan&Don: Hi guys, Wednesday night, I am Dan – I am Don – you are watching Reality Brief. We got a special guest tonight – Andrea. How are you doing tonight, Andrea?

 

Andrea: I am fine so far, how are you?

 

Dan&Don: Great. So, you talk to us from Austria, right?

 

Andrea: Yes, Austria, Vienna.

 

Dan&amp;Don: Your specialty I guess you can call it would be trauma-based mind control – your website is on the screen <a href=”http://www.traumabasedmindcontrol.com”>www.traumabasedmindcontrol.com</a>

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Andrea: Yes, I am specialised on the symptoms of the small and smallest ones, when all this mind fracture and basic programming is starting.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, how did you get into this? Like, what was your circumstances finding out about all this stuff?

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Andrea: Well, I came into this topic over my son, when he was 2 1/2 years old. He, after actually not even half a year with visits at his daddy (on his own) and – had quite all of sudden horrible flashbacks telling me the most crazy, horrendous things you have ever heard. And within the flashbacks there was no doubt that he had suffered something severely, so I was trying to puzzle out what might have happened without knowing anything about satanic ritual abuse or MK ultra and – I started to write down line by line what he told me also describing his language, his body language, what triggered him, and so on… and, sent it to courts, and always asking to have him examined in detail over MRT/CT. Courts refused (to have him examined in detail) and – Austrian government took him then away. Now I know – because he recognized 72+ perpetrators involved in his basic mind fracture and also as his programmers or mk ultra trainers and, afterwards, they claimed “no, the boy would be healthy and would have nothing”. So, the blame was put on me as a kind of patsy or scapegoat and after that, they presented me under supervised visits my highly traumatized son very openly so, he actually is officially in a MK ultra program. With no chance to get help for him, with no chance to get any examinations. This is the status quo now since 2011, so he is ongoing in a program for 7 years now.

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Dan&amp;Don: That´s heart-breaking – that´s heart-breaking and frightening that they just can do this to people this network of abusers, nefarious bastards in position of power are able to exert this kind of influence over society as a whole

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Andrea: Yes.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, what type of things was he telling you at first when he was having these flashbacks?

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Andrea: I mean it started when he had a flashback when looking in the mirror – this was very stunning – there I realized that he had experienced violence this was the starting, you know, and then all of a sudden he started – one example I always tell – because it is the most horrific and also the most embarrassing one, even to talk about it: he was tortured with a toilet brush. So, he took a toilet brush and all of a sudden he had the memory (trigger) “I know this, I know this toilet brush” and he was crying for hours, shouting, shivering, panicking but you know, there are different ways a child can cry, as a parent you see when it is panic, horrific… But one can also it on children from others – but back, so he was crying like crazy and first I thought, well, yes, they might have him beaten him with this, until I found out over hours or even weeks, that they used the handle of the toilet brush to penetrate him with that, to sodomize him with that. And, one hand – you know – you have your tortured child, so you have no doubt that his happened and on the other hand – just imagine – you as a parent, now have to go to police, to prosecution office and tell them, well, yes this happened.

Who should believe you, so these groups (and networks) are bestial brilliant to always put the blame on you as a concerned parent as well on the children, as no one would believe it.

After all these torture happenings – water-boarding, he was rolled into a carpet… he was trained to act as a baby prostitute (etc.) and you as a concerned parent, you have to explain prosecution office, police that this can happen, that this does happen and, that even many perpetrators were present whom he had to name “mummy” or “daddy”. So, you come with this quite weird stuff, if you do not anything about satanic ritual abuse, ritual abuse – child trafficking – or mk ultra – you nearly have no chance to get someone to listen to you. And, what is very interesting, I several times offered authorities they can examine me psychiatrically, they even can have my son – after a detailed examination over CT/MRT/(nuclear medical examination) – and if my son would not have anything… he can live with his “father” – I really offered anything and they (courts, authorities) denied, denied, denied.

So, it is very difficult when you are in this situation as a parent to even get an examination for these children. And, there is the Istanbul Protocol from the United Nations, so hundreds of torture specialists wrote these (guidelines) for torture cases – a guideline for acting in torture cases – this is now the official recommendation from the United Nations, and the point is, no one knows about it or claims not to know about it and if you have a tortured child no one is helping these children.

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Dan&amp;Don: Now, when this first started happening, what did you think that it might be first, or did you think automatically that it was this?

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Andrea: We here in Austria do not know anything about satanic ritual abuse or MK ultra. So, I had no idea what was going on but thanks to the information my son was able to give me about the perpetrators, I realized that they are well well educated, they are university professors, physicians, psychologists, so I knew that they are no idiots, you know. So, I just thought, there must be something, a bigger structure behind that… Because they would not take such a risk and they would not be able to do it so professionally, you know, the way I saw that my son was trained as a baby prostitute… was highly professional. It was heartbreaking, heart-breaking, but I realized that this was done on a highly professional level.

Or situations, where he changed personalities, I named it “he changed his status or consciousness” I did not realize that he already was a split personality with deliberately caused multiple personality disorder – I did not know this (in those days), so I described it differently.

So, there was a personality which did not recognize me any more: I was with him on the street and all of a sudden, he changed into this alter and he did not see me anymore (standing in front of him), so he was like standing alone on the street, trying to join other adults.

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And from “small” – let´s say “small” things – I realized “O my god, this is a huge, huge, huge systematic thing done on him”.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, if you suspect that your child is maybe a victim of this, what are the symptoms that you would normally look out for? Besides from what you already said.

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Andrea: I mean the first symptoms, during the first visits were, that he came home very ill, you know. I was at the doctor´s with him nearly twice a week and the doctor´s  – the paediatric, meaning the child physicians – always prescribed him antibiotics. Now I know they described him antibiotics all the time to heal his inner wounds, because you nearly never see some wounds or bruises.

White torture is used – so, you cannot track water-boarding, you cannot track (all kinds of white torture) – so, they often roll the children into carpets to beat them there, because this does not leave traces… And, he already was “clean” we say in German, meaning he was able to go on his own to his potty, so, I did not check his genitals, his anus in detail. And what I know now is, that – or pricking with needles, they pricked his tooth root canal – they use everything that does not leave VISIBLE traces.

So the first symptoms are that they get ill, very ill, are stopping to talk, he already was able to talk, also, he needed soothers again and, he had enormous mood swings, unexplainable at the beginning and after he was already programmed – at least the basic steps of programming were done – after some breaks in visiting his “father” – all the things came out, one after the next, over months…

Another symptom, this is very important because it is heart-breaking – those children are always surrounded with perpetrators. So, take very care, when you child liked a (former) friend, a family member, a neighbour, (etc.) and all of a sudden, the toddler is telling you this person is not nice anymore. Take really care when this is happening, especially in this age when it is a five year old child, it might be a mood or the child might be just playing but especially serious when it is a toddler, because these groups are – meaning no single person can do this harm – so they are operating in groups, so you have involved neighbours, involved family members and you have involved acquaintances and it is also convincing the child that you would be cooperating unconsciously, because your child is told “your mummy or your daddy …” – I also know many concerned fathers… as protective fathers …. They always tell the child, “your mother or your father… want that you have now “ouch” – he/she is agreeing on that”.

And it is very stressing on a soul level as a protective parent, having no clue about the situation and the child who is experiencing this double-bind situation, that you are in contact with the perpetrators, meaning the protective mother or father is in contact with the perpetrators (without knowing).

And my son was convinced over weeks, that I wanted him to be tortured. – – –

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Dan&amp;Don: This is terrible.

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Andrea: Yes, yes.

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Dan&amp;Don: Was there a family member involved in your case?

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Andrea. Yes, actually my whole family is involved. It took me quite a while to find out – he told me quite late about family members involved – because they were close, they were I mean I was even phoning with them, telling them about his torture. He was listening while I was phoning with family members… So, I was even allowing his so called “grandmother” to babysit him, while I was at courts trying to find help for him (…) So of course – this was also done to re-trigger him, and she (at least) re-triggered him, and so on… So, I brought this to courts (too), nevertheless courts ignored it, and now I know of course, years later, that I grew up in a total mk ultra family

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Dan&amp;Don: So, from your page (www.traumabasedmindcontrol.com) it seems as courts were complicit and took care that the case would never see the light of the day.

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Andrea: Yes, yes, yes. What I also know now is, that they were phoning around (to manipulate, influence, betray officials where necessary), I mean I had many former friends or acquaintances who were involved so, seemingly it was a whole set-up my live which I did not realize because I did not realize that I am programmed, mk-ed myself. So, on one hand it was heart-breaking for me to see that all friends or acquaintances were joining the crime because my son already told me and on the other hand, I felt so free, it was so much healing in this information itself, you know.

That might sound a bit weird, but truth is always healing. And I also realized this with my son first: Every single story that he was able to tell me meant healing for him – instant healing – like with a finger snip, you know. So, as heart-breaking as it is it is healing.

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Dan&amp;Don: That´s good, at least.

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Andrea: Yes, and sorry, for all parents that might be in this situation, what it is also extremely heart-breaking, is, my son claimed for example that I am not his mummy anymore … he was not allowed not allowed to call me “mummy” anymore but “Andrea” – he had to call me with my first name and it is heart-breaking, when you are dedicated parent and all of a sudden your child claims “you are not my mummy – you are not my father – anymore” and it took me actually years to find out what was going on until – there was this tape from the pizzagate researchers – – they have it on audio, how it comes to the point that a child has to say to others – to strangers – mum and dad – caused via plain horrific torture.

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Dan&amp;Don: And how old is your son, now?

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Andrea: 2 to 2 1/2years was the period (…)

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Dan&amp;Don: Oh now, sorry, how old he is currently right now in the present?

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Andrea: Currently present he is 10 years now.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, this has been ongoing for a while?

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Andrea: Yes, ongoing for a while, yes. And the last horrific thing that happened – I mean already in 2011, when he was 2 1/2yrs old, he told me that he now would be a girlie, that he would not be able to get children and told me about castration, that they told him at least that they would have him castrated – they do this quite often by crushing the inner genitals – or pricking with needles (into the inner genitals) – – or taking out even the bulbourethral gland – but that is something technical you can read this up on my website – and, in addition to this – they sent me a picture of him, this January 2019, a few months ago without any comment, where I saw, that he already lost – ALL – his adult teeth. This is often caused via torture, via electroshock or other means so, am they show me – again – openly that my beloved son is tortured. I wrote to court again – prosecution office AND family court – and all I get back is “there is no initial suspicion” – not to even have a look on the boy, not to have him examined in detail.

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Dan&amp;Don: Well, it makes you wonder how much of this stuff authorities are covering up? You know, because it is not just one person, you know what I mean?

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Andrea: Yes. I mean this is the – it took me quite some time to find out – at least at the moment I think to be honest – I think that I was groomed for this role to create a kind of strategic entanglement machinery, because every single doctor, physicians, psychologist, therapist, teacher, kindergartener (pre-school teacher) prosecution officer, judge, police officer – they are all entangled because it would be their duty to help this child. And by covering-up, preventing him from basic medical examinations and treatment is a crime, also here in Austria. A severe crime, because torture – it´s like murder, you can get even jailed for helping or allowing torture actually you can get jailed even 60 years afterwards, you know.

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Dan&amp;Don: Yes, there is no here we call it “statute of limitation”, how much time it is past between when the crime was actually committed and the present day.

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Andrea: Yes, exactly. Thank you for the technical term. Same here – and so I am very worried, extremely worried that they are going to kill my son therefore, then claim the child would have had an accident.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, what do you estimate is the point of it, why they are doing this to all the children?

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Andrea: I mean, we call it (egg-laying wool milk pig) – I mean – you just have if you are a psychopath and think like a psychopath, I grew up with them, so I know much about how they think, you just have advantages: You can first use these children as part of their basic mind fracture as baby prostitutes. The younger they are the more money you get. Then secondly you have the satanic component, you can do a lot of black magic rituals, energy transfers, experimentations within some satanic cults and then you have the third row of physicians, doing plain mk ultra research, improving their programs or even try to sell a certain type of program. So, everyone is earning from that, as well on top it is known, that the Nazis started to do this – you can entangle a whole population with this crime.

We know for example, many whistle-blowers are talking about it, that you can be invited to a huge event, and you are proud because you think, yes, well this is important for my career your ego is (getting big) and you are excited to be there and we know that they are mixing drugs into the drinks there and then they let you participate in some (torture) rituals. So, of course this is filmed, and from then on, if you don´t go to police, to prosecution office and report about the drugs, the torture and hand yourself in, you are entangled.

And the next step is, that they can also ask for your children. And grandchildren.

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Dan&amp;Don: We knew this for quite a long time that they use this type of stuff as a black mail device.

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Andrea: Yes.

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Dan&amp;Don: You do not even have to necessarily participate in it, a picture of you in a room is enough.

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Andrea: Yes. I mean this is the most common procedure for those who are not in SRA or MK ultra. But here in Austria seemingly – I mean we have here the old Nazi home-base, I mean Adolf Hitler was Austrian – the SS academy of physicians was brought to Austria, to Graz, that is a town 2 hours away from Vienna – in 1940, so still SS academy of physicians is operating here – it was never shut down, so we have here such a high density of SRA and MK ultra in general population.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, you say this is perpetrated basically by the 4th REICH?

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Andrea: Yes, this is interesting, we have here 4th REICH but we have here also at least as my research goes to at the moment, I think we have here extremely strong THULE, with THULE I mean the combination of VRIL, the 4th REICH and the Vatican. Now also – unfortunately in Vienna – also having large co-operations with MOSSAD and with Russian secret service. Vienna for example was always said to be a melting pot of the secret services of the east and west, as it is a country, meaning a city, on the former boarder of east and west. So, we here have any secret services and they are sitting – I mean for us it is here the Nazis, there the Jews, then the Muslims – but we know that in their free-masonic lodges – or in their power centres they are sitting around one table together.

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Dan&amp;Don: Yes, wow. You know within our own research we discovered that that the THULE is actually behind the rise of the Nazi party.

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Andrea: Yes

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Dan&amp;Don: They basically installed Hitler.

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Andrea: They installed Hitler, they financed him. I mean there was so much money available for their research, for their military equipment, for their space flying saucers and so on… Even just look at their clothes, they were made by the later designer Hugo Boss. So, they had even designer cloths. Who paid for this in a country that had no money after the 1st world war?

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Dan&amp;Don: They were financed from Switzerland. I have learned everything from living in a military town – it is you have to look out where people go to receive funding for things – and – yeah – funding is king. It is funny, because the first time I ever heard about this about the whole concept about SRA, about satanic ritual abuse was that someone I used to be friends with from high-school and her mum told me that she basically got turned on into a conspiracy theory about this worldwide network of paedophiles that was basically run by the Vatican.

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Andrea: Wow.

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Dan&amp;Don: And the Jesuit order was actually on the centre of it.

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Andrea: Yes, exactly – I also always land at the Jesuits (doing research) – And the interesting thing for example, the brother of Wernher von Braun – Wernher von Braun, the rocket scientist and head of NASA and so on – his brother – Sigismund (von Braun) – was a diplomat in the Vatican.

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Dan&amp;Don: Really?

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Andrea: Yes.

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Dan&amp;Don: I did not know that.

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Andrea: So, you have the connection within one click. And of course, we have here mostly Nazis or former Nazis but especially in our own case, my son recognized perpetrators from Nazi families and from Jewish families committing the crime hand in hand. So, that does not make the situation easier, and actually when I am going against one group, the other comes and attacks me back… and they are protecting each other.

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Dan&amp;Don: Yeah, I think that it is a mistake to counter column. Nazis were behind it, because Nazis were just a creation of occult societies and THULE was basically all the ones who were active in Germany and suck them all up in form of a super cult. So, I mean even though the Nazi party is long gone the actually driving force behind it is still well active, still rock n rolling. And then you get the ties to the O.T.O from that. Do you want to speak on that Dan?

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Andrea: The O.T.O – I did not get that?

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Dan&amp;Don: Well as far I know Aleister Crowley started the O.T.O

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Andrea: Ahh – O.T.O  – yes of course

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Dan&amp;Don: during world war 2, they were magical tools between the British lodges the leftovers of the “Golden Dawn” then the VRIL, all basically started out of Blavatsky teachings… from what I can understand. – – – Right.

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Andrea: The O.T.O was even founded in Vienna. Austria.

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Dan&amp;Don: Yeah, I believe that. The closest chapter here is I think in Baltimore. Yes, this is probably 6-8 hours away from us.

Andrea: Wow. And you know, the interesting thing, for me at least, but it might be also interesting for you for example perpetrators my son was able to recognize, especially the older ones, Americans survivors in their 30ies, in their 40ies in their 60ies recognized the same perpetrators as their programmers, as their handlers, as their trainers. So, this group is operating worldwide it is not so huge as it seems. My impression is that the core programmers are still alive Mengele is still alive, Aribert Heim is still alive and they are not giving out of their hands their basic knowledge – that´s at least my impression.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, where would you think he is hiding, if Mengele was still around, in Brazil or – – – Argentina?

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Andrea: There are many reports that Mengele is in New York, looking like in his 50ies or 60ies

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Dan&amp;Don:  Really?

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Andrea: Yes, I believe that too. And first, you know, I was studying with comparative literature and there I was dealing a lot with the 3rd REICH and the Jewish survivor reports of the concentrations camps and some of them were saying, “they are still here” – they were saying this in the 90ies – “they are still here, they are still attacking us” – and I was wondering what was going on with them, why were they so afraid, so there were many Jewish survivors claiming that – the same with American MK ultra survivor Wendy Hoffman, she is also Jewish. She is reporting – that is highly interesting – that Josef Mengele was starting her MK ultra programming in the early 40ies – in New York – long before the war ended. So, this is all a cover-up, everything was prepared that the Nazis will be then transferred to America in my opinion.

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Dan&amp;Don: Yes, officially we have in the books that we had operation paperclip – – – project paperclip – – – yes, excuse me – – but, you know what I was saying about the O.T.O and all these occult orders having the same core stuff (…) so it does not really matter, it is all the occult order. So, very easily for them to have – you know – we have the same type of society here in the US and we had them in those times – so here we have your networks.

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Andrea: Yes, yes. I think on one hand they have these regression technologies for themselves and on the other hand they are playing a lot with time travel. So, I have concrete memories on my own programming now that I was talking with my own programmer recently, meaning one year ago.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, well how did that conversation go?

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(all laughing)

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Andrea: Well, from my own story just to give a frame for that it took me years even after the situation with my son happened that I realized that I was total MK ultra too, because my programming is on one hand extremely well done and on the other hand extremely well hidden. So, when I am changing alters one nearly cannot see any difference – and no one can see it. So, a friend of mine, Miesha Johnston, she is also working with me for years now, is also stating that she cannot see a difference on me (when changing alters). So, this just to give a frame for it. But over the years I got some hints and, I realized when I was in Norway, actually, I realized that during a deep meditation a kind of portal was opening it felt as if my bed would get wheels, my bed would have been driven into another room, then an airlock of a military base would have been opened… – I was in plain shock and just shouted “No, I do not agree, I do not consent” – and then I was driven back, so I realized that I was fetched by a portal technology.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, when you say portal technology, are you talking about like people from a secret space program or a breakaway civilization, are we talking about the same portal technology?

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Andrea: No much more practical. If they want to fetch you, they just need a kind of electromagnetic frequency I call it – I am unfortunately not a technician – but they just can fetch you where ever you are. So this I was experiencing on your own, you are lying on your bed or you are sleeping and they just take you and for you it feels as if your bed would get wheels and you are transported into – I do not know if I was on this planet or off-planet – but they just take you to a complete different location, and the same way I was brought back.

And there, I have memories, talking for example to one of the not so well-known Nazi programmers, Aribert Heim, but he was (has been) a close colleague of Joseph Mengele.

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Dan&amp;Don: Do you think maybe that there is any possibility that the portal technology or the leaving could be screen memories?

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Andrea: No, – no, because it was not just ones, I had many of them… … I don´t think it was a screen memory actually, no. Because also during regression it was confirmed. So, I have memories on my own, meaning I made the experience during deep meditation several times – and during regression it was confirmed. But, I mean, talking about screen memories: All could be screen memories but it would be for too much in sum for screen memories, you know. I also found out during a session that I was programmed at the Wewelsburg castle in Germany.

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Dan&amp;Don: And that´s the place where the Black Sun and the 4th REICH is located, right?

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Andrea: Yes, it is Himmler´s occult castle. And I found out later, later I did research, many are telling the same stories, that they were laying there on the black sun symbol… getting programmed or tortured or whatsoever. So, it cannot be a screen memory of all of us, you know.

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Dan&amp;Don: Right. You know it was not to be like accusatory or anything.

Andrea: I understand. I question myself a lot about it and actually, maybe, I think often too long

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(all laughing)

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Dan&amp;Don: You know, it´s been discussed in some of the circles that are circulate through that they now have the possibility to place false memories in your head – dark city style. You know, they can take a memory from one person and implant it into another.

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Andrea: Yes, of course they can. But, you know, there are always – how is it called – injuries (scars) on your body. So why I do have these problems with my coccyx or with my tailbone? – without having any memories about an accident. Why do I have quite crippled pointing fingers without any memories? Of course, from torture. Why do I have memories like – actually I had the ability to store memories like an audio recorder or video recorder in my brain. Too many things that cannot get explained via consciousness transfer or implanted memories, you know. But I am very aware of the situation, that not everything is true. And I am very careful in my research, therefore.

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Dan&amp;Don: Right.

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Andrea: And, I am just talking about things, where I am 100% sure.

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Dan&amp;Don: We are like the opposite – (laughing) – we are going on air every week and are just (talking about everything) I mean on our show we are not afraid of wild connection  – – – We speculate quite often. A great deal, it is pretty much the point of our show – it is wild speculation. But you know we also try to provide a platform where everyone can come in a non-judgmental atmosphere and let the audience decide on their own. And, I wanna thank you for coming on and talking about this – – – And I understand that you are taking incredible risk by doing it, but the risk not doing it is even bigger.

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Andrea: I made a decision, I mean, my son, shortly before he was taken, I asked him – we knew it could happen because there was the imminent danger of course – so I asked him, what I should do in such a case, meaning if I should focus on him or for him and all his little friends, and he said – of course in his language in these days – please fight for me and all those other children. So, he told me what to do and I am going on with that of course.

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Dan&amp;Don: So, how would you go about trying to – or would it even be advisable – to merge personalities that have been fractured due to trauma-based mind control?

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Andrea: You mean, in terms of healing?

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Dan&amp;Don: Yes.

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Andrea: I mean, on one hand it is a very long process and on the other hand it is going very quickly, depending, if secret service or the cults who think they would own you are leaving you alone or not. So, for example Miesha Johnston is doing wonderful sessions with me as a hypnotherapist, but, for example after every single session I am fetched and memories are again deleted. So, I just have the audio recordings and it is very difficult to come into this memory flow. So, healing is possible very quickly in my opinion when you are left in peace. That´s my message, you know. And many are also, like we do know from other secret space whistle-blowers like Penny Bradley who is a friend of mine and a colleague – she is also under attack. So, the point is: Are you left in peace, are you attacked by direct energy weapons, are you poisoned, are there murder attempts against you or are you even fetched and your memories are wiped out again and again and again?

And what cannot get healed – sorry, just one sentence – what cannot be healed, if you have mutilations, for example, this cannot be healed and even if I would get back my son now, I cannot give him back his childhood.

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Dan&amp;Don: right.

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Andrea: Same here with me, but alters can be integrated, alters can be found, it is not such a big deal, but most of us are not left alone, they do not let us live in peace, that´s – for most of us – the problem, I think.

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Dan&amp;Don: During all your healing, have you figured out, what the intend was for your mind fracture?

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Andrea: The intend for my mind fracture?

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Dan&amp;Don: Yes, what did they use you for?

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Andrea: What I have found out so far, but this section is blocked the most, is, that I was used I have memories of being used for small or smallest agency jobs. I was used in Montauk seemingly my ability was or is to search for or to find certain things they used this ability a lot

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Dan&amp;Don: Now, was that something like astral travel or remote viewing or was that something different?

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Andrea: My memories are more remote viewing based.

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Dan&amp;Don: okay, they were using you as a remote viewer.

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Andrea: this at least I know at the moment, and it is – at the moment very difficult to find them (…) And seemingly in some point in time they started to use me for the role I am playing now because for me it cannot be a coincidence, you know… … also the studies, my whole education. I mean why did I study comparative literature? So, you are good in observing, in puzzling together text pieces… then, I have an education in business, in statistics, … then also as a counsellor, trainer coach – so, I don´t think this is a coincidence, I really think they trained me to be capable for the role I am doing now. So, it is a bestial cynical game actually. you know?

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Dan&amp;Don: Yes, it is seemingly.

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Andrea: And first, I thought, wow, you are so lucky to have all these educations and over the years I tend to think, well, was it really my decision? You know what I mean?

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Yes, and earlier you talked about shifting from one personality in the other and it was not indistinguishable so that´s kind of scary for me – how do you even know then, like of how much of what you are doing is wanted to be done and how much is a programming? Like you are coming to my show right now, you know what I am saying?

&nbsp;

Andrea: I mean, I am used to that, everyone who is programmed is used to that. It is normal – I recognize it now better when I am in a program, I have the classical “fight or flight” modus, this are signs for me that now I am in a program or in an alter that is suggesting that there is no other way. Or, in the early years I found out that when I am extremely ill, I start to look the brightest… I start to shine, you know. This is done via extreme torture “no one is allowed to realize how you are really feeling”.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Yes, that´s bad. – – – The sense of isolation is overwhelming.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Isolation?

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Yes, having the secret, not being able to tell the world that this stuff is happening and happened.

&nbsp;

Andrea: I mean, I can tell the world.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: I mean like for the victims…

Andrea: I mean is a huge point in my life, that´s why I stopped here. They keep me well isolated; I am living here in a small studio actually in Vienna and they are keeping me in principle isolated for years now. I have fortunately friends all over the world which can be met over the internet, but there are no local friends, there is no local network and, over the years – it is maybe also interesting – even after the thing happened to Luki, my son I was brought into an even more sever isolation over secret service agents: They come as helpers, they come as friends and, over months and years you realize, well now I am completely isolated.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Have you lived in Austria your entire life?

&nbsp;

Andrea: Mostly, yes. I lived several months in London, in the beginning in 2013, where I tried desperately to find help for my son, I lived and worked in London for about 6-9 months, then I lived also in Asia, after a murder attempt I had to fly and lived in a Buddhist monastery to find some healing then I was a few months in Switzerland, then I was in Norway and most of the time I was accompanied by secret service officials, so they are really eager to prevent you from working on one hand, re-trigger you, re-program you, keep you ready for whatsoever, you know to target you.

And what they also do, especially in the early years, they do a lot of – this is extremely important for the audience – they do a lot of what we call “operative psychology” this means “erosion of the soul” – “ZERSETZUNG”: They really try to kill you by killing your soul or hurting your soul so much that you either get really insane, or you commit suicide or you knock at the door of a psychiatry and ask to live there for the rest of your life. And this is extremely dangerous – I am not joking about this – for example one of the first helpers that was here, was from the secret service – officially he wanted to help me and my son – and sitting in my living room and having coffee with him, all of a sudden I thought, O my god, I had the feeling now I am getting crazy to be honest, as there was so much cognitive dissonance in this meeting until out I found out, that he was one of the torturers of my son.

And it sounds very easy now here, when I tell this, but when you are in this situation, it is nearly unbearable. And they love, for example, to send you agents, that were involved in the torture – it is extremely important for breaking you down on a soul level because your unconsciousness knows it – just you as a person does not know it and – after this did not work anymore – because when you find it out once you find it out much quicker the next time, and so on, so it does not work any more

What they also did, for your audience this is also important, they recorded the torture events of my beloved son meaning his crying, begging for help, crying for me and then, they sent me these happenings over white noises (into my living room). So, the same is going on, you are unconsciously on a soul level listening to that and you do not hear it directly, because it is white noises and I promise you, if you do not find out, you are getting insane, it is nearly unbearable. As soon as you find out it does not hurt you so much and you can try to record it and then often it immediately stops.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Do you think this is what could have happened to the diplomats in Cuba? And a couple of other places, I think China, there are diplomats claiming to be sonically attacked.

&nbsp;

Andrea: I think yes, because even if it is not your child it is breaking down every sentient being. It is unbearable, it is really unbearable. Because on a soul level it is eroding your soul, it is weakening you and you have no idea because you do not hear anything, you know. So, yes, my opinion is this could be.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: So, is there any way you could possibly shield yourself from that besides from living in a

deprivation chamber

&nbsp;

(all laughing)

&nbsp;

Andrea: I think the most important thing is to know because what you know cannot kill you or cannot drive you insane you can do something about it. General protection is very difficult for example, because I was sitting in Norway in a small little Fjord, you know and they came to electroshock me in my living-room from outside.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: what?

&nbsp;

Andrea: yes.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: That´s terrible.

&nbsp;

Andrea: and this device can be bought in any shop worldwide. Even privately, so even we could buy it if we wanted to, you know. So, it is more important to find out what is going on, and about the mechanism how the secret service operatives and their satanic crews are operating then to protect, because you cannot be so protected, they most often find a new way, you know.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: right. Always a countermeasure.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, and for example in the settlement where I live in Vienna half of the settlement thinks I would have (tried) to commit suicide because a secret service officer told them so…

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: really?

&nbsp;

Andrea: yes, the other third thinks I am insane (and the few left do have children in mk ultra or SRA/child trafficking programs on their own)

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Just to clarify, when you say secret service, are you talking about something over there or are you talking about the US secret service?

&nbsp;

Andrea: Oh, no, here in Austria I talk about local Austrian secret service.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Okay

&nbsp;

Andrea: And, I even after a murder attempt, I mentioned them even with name, picture, address towards prosecution office, but they do not mind.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: So, in Austria, what would be the secret service be in charge of? What would be their main job? Here in America, their only job is to protect the president.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Aha, okay, I did not know that.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: yeah, we got the CIA and the NSA, they are all intelligence agencies. The (…) defence agencies, the whole we call them alphabet agencies… but the secret service basically is just here to protect the president… Yes, the CIA and the FBI are the 2 big intelligence agencies that most people know about

&nbsp;

Andrea: Okay. Here in Austria we have the situation that general population does not know that secret service does even exist. So, when you start to talk secret service, they more tend to think that you are insane, they are so brain-washed so, this means that Austrian secret service is excellent because a population that does not know that the agency exists shows that the agency did a brilliant job.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: So, this would be more a “men in black” agency than the CIA? The men in black, that do not exist to investigate UFO, (…) or they come and collect evidence on topics that technically do not exist? Yeah – they are part of an organization, that´s so secret that there is no name for it.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, something more like this. And you know, they more look like we do… they are caretakers of houses, housewives, pensioners, invalids, …they really have a brilliant stuff, you know it is not – we all have still have in our mind the James Bond type.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Right

&nbsp;

(all laughing)

Andrea: And when someone is not looking like this type it cannot be, you know.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: So, you have to look on your watch and I am sure a good portion of old Europe remembers secret police

&nbsp;

(all laughing)

&nbsp;

Andrea: So, it is extremely difficult here in Austria. We here are also not allowed to talk about UFOs and not allowed to talk (actually think) about aliens.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Really?

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, we are so brainwashed, even I am I have to admit. I have really troubles to talk about aliens… … because it is so forbidden here that you do not dare (even think about it), you know?

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Yeah, American culture is pretty obsessed with aliens and there is a state in the US that made a law that made it illegal to get abducted

(all laughing)

&nbsp;

Andrea: really?

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Can you believe that?

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, but this is free speech and we must not forget that we are here in the Nazi home-base so why are they the brainwashing the population even to not dare to think about it? Of course, we have a lot of alien contacts a lot of (informal) bases, a lot of UFOs but it is the best protection, no?

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Yes, I guess so it is given a giant stigma I mean it used to have a pretty big stigma here too, but it is losing up in the last 20, 30 years I would say. – – – Well, we are speaking here about the CIA there it was said, everything you see on TV, everything you hear on radio anything that makes its way into the mass consciousness, is what we call culture changing, is you know – basically the powers that be taking these ideas and grounding them into the American Zeitgeist. So, are you are familiar over there in Austria with the Tavistock institute?

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, of course.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: So, a lot of techniques come from them for mass penetration. And repeating chunk at the psyche on a mass level – – – So, I think the way it worked here is, keep this under-wiring sort of theme, that if anybody talks about it like UFOs or extra-terrestrials, yeah, they are crazy, but… since we have such a hard time making everything who is seeing something in the sky look crazy… we are just getting here “not talk about it” or “make it part of the culture”.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yeah, I mean, you really have freedom of speech, you must not forget this.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Yes, for now.

&nbsp;

Andrea: And you had gorgeous whistle-blowers, activists, scientists over the last 60 years actually who did so much from any angle of the truther scenes… basic field research – Anthony J. Hilder, Cooper – I now miss his first name –

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Bill Cooper – – – Milton William “Bill” Cooper

&nbsp;

Andrea: than all those dealing with SRA and MK ultra, so without you Americans I think I would not be alive anymore, because I think they would have broken me.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Well, on behalf of America, Thank you.

&nbsp;

(all laughing)

&nbsp;

Andrea: thank you, America.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: You know, I mean I get the feeling, all of that is coming up backyards, as we recently had a few stories shared in the group – this is just in 2 days ago – that 2 major child trafficking rings are broken up, one in Detroit and one in Georgia.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Child smuggling rings?

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Yes, and we are in Virginia.

&nbsp;

Andrea: I mean, this news with smuggling rings, this is great for the concerned children, but then you maybe safe a few hundreds, you know. But, in my opinion it is more important to get out the whole thing what was done on them in terms of programming? Because then they are taken out from the smuggling rings and placed into foster places where they are ongoing programmed or used for whatsoever. So, we have to raise the awareness, in my opinion how the procedure is done on toddlers and small children because otherwise we cannot stop the whole issue. And these children are becoming perpetrators on their own, not all of them, but many. So, the number is raising of course, also the numbers of perpetrators are raising.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Well there is a never-ending leak of horror stories that emerged from CPS – child protection services, the whole foster care system – you know, juvenile courts, there is a never-ending laundry list of horror stories emerging from those sectors.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, Nancy Schaefer, I think she was an American senator… she was collecting materials about your CPS and she was suicided with her husband, I think 1 or 3 days before the hearing

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Something we have to dig into – – – Yeah.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Much is published about her, so you can find her – Nancy Schaefer is/was her name. (<a href=”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Schaefer”>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Schaefer</a>)

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Sounds familiar. Was she investigating Haiti?

&nbsp;

Andrea: She was investigating the CPS.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: So, just CPS, so she was not investigating child trafficking in Haiti?

&nbsp;

Andrea: Not Haiti – as far as I know, not Haiti – but child trafficking and CPS and money laundering there out of child trafficking.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Well, it is commonly known, at least in conspiracy theory circles that there are terrible things being done behind closed doors by the elites. So, the Clinton foundation is involved in Haiti… this guy Jeff Epstein, what is referred to as “rape island” in the US Virgin islands… … you know the Clintons made multiple trips there, probably twice as often as Trump but – yes – he has been there, then Weinstein, Harvey Weinstein – – –  Just recently too, then we have this Nxivm cult getting broken up in the same type of thing – I have not heard anything about children involved in that one but this one was more human trafficking – – – Keith Raniere got locked up for taking pictures with 15year old girls (beside other things)

&nbsp;

Andrea: Okay

Dan&amp;Don: the whole pizzagate thing, and you know people who want to laugh about that claiming “pizzagate is not real” – thinking it was just about the guy owning the pizza restaurant (…)

&nbsp;

Andrea: I mean this is extremely important and I am so glad that other guys are doing this research but what I, what for me is more interesting, all those guys you mentioned, Weinstein, Clintons, etc. – all those guys are MK ultra themselves. So, also my son told me – this was so interesting – heart-breaking, heart-breaking: he told me that other toddlers were present and they were forced to do him “ouch” – “ouch” was our code for torture, you know. So, the small ones, perpetrators were forcing their own children to torture my son and other children – so this is part of their mk ultra program – that they have to do this to other children. And when you see them growing up then, then you have the adult versions of Weinstein, Clinton, however they are called or Bush – same here in Austria, no difference – By the way – Arnold Schwarzenegger – also involved in all this, is Austrian.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: You know, you mentioned Bill Clinton being MK – I met Bill Clinton one time, he was campaigning for his wife, in 2008 or something like that and he was doing some speech for her in a gymnasium and at the time I was involved in a actors groups and we stood there asking questions (…) – ambush journalism basically – (…) – so someone dared to ask him about the Bohemian Grove. And when I got to him it was so strange it was as if – the energy in the room was as if he was a rock star – he held his speech and he is doing the meet and greet thing and he just: IT was empty. Like his face, it was just like – you know – I shook his hand and asked a question and he was just blank face and it all seemed as if he was not even there. It was great.

&nbsp;

Andrea: I mean there is this famous video from him online – I do not know if you know it – but where he gets make-up before a speech I think, and there you see, that there is nothing there, that he is just a shell

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: It seemed that way to me. I mean he did the speech well you know – he seemed alive and well he was giving a speech, but afterwards it was just like if he was looking through everyone. You know, he did not even see anyone in the room.

&nbsp;

Andrea: I think this is more important – for me it is more important – to point the fact that they are programmed themselves. That does not mean that they are without guilt of course they need to take back their personal responsibility and liability. you know. But it is important that we know that they are programmed themselves, so were programmed for these roles. So you have all these perverted torture events with small children – I am not talking about sex, because for a child it is always torture – when you just think of the body measures of a child or a toddler and an adult man or even woman – it is torture, but they are programmed to do this. And of course, it is still the responsibility – even programmed – of them to seek help, to stop it and overtake responsibility and liability. We must see that they are victims on their own and that even their children are programmed into this role to become perpetrators later on. So, if we do not see it, if we do not recognize it, it never stops.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: And, yeah, this is kind a common thing with molestation cases and stuff like that that are not necessarily tied into SRA or Mk because there are just people out who do that. And the children themselves turning around and doing it to other children, maybe thinking it was normal as it was done on them. You know, outside of the whole ritual abuse thing, and well, yes if there is on top the whole programming thing, there is no wonder.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes. And I mean many survivors are speaking out and say I want to stop this – so, you have the decision – I made the decision, many others did so not all victims are becoming perpetrators.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Right, so, what do you think I guess the stats – how many do you think are concerned? (….)

&nbsp;

Andrea: Millions.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: So, I guess if we step up to the plate so to speak to realize that it is happening to you first. I wished, there just were a beam we can use to reveal all of this – if there exists one, maybe it does I think it is a kind of violation (…) once you have done this kind of shit (…)

&nbsp;

Andrea: And I mean there are different levels of programming. Not everyone gets the – I am now cynical – gets the governmental programming from the secret service with lifelong torture included. There are many steps from basic child abuse to mk ultra programming and many grey zones, you know. So that´s why I think and many talk about it, that millions are concerned.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: With that not giving too much information away where I work… – everyone knows where you work, Dan – – – Ah, well, I work here in (…) and this kid says “mummy, I want this starburst” and the mummy says “no, you get the skittles to support the troops” – You remember the white and blue skittles they had one day? – and well, brainwashing starts at home. That was just an anecdote, well I mean cultural conditioning, this kind of programming. You know, it is little things like that, that adds up to overall programming. A computer program is made of lots of bits of codes. Right, and that bit of code right there.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, of course (…)

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: So, we are about of running out of time here. So, we again want to thank you for coming on – Her website there – if you guys are interested to check it out- there is a lot of cool stuff on it and will later post it to the group. So, go check that out. Andrea, do you have anything in closing that you would like to say?

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, to parents out there, I just want to mention, I did a lot of work on traumabasedmindcontrol.com, the most important information is in the forensics chapters and if you are in the situation, try to find immediately a lawyer, and go together with the lawyer to a hospital, maybe you pay even privately for it, and do a MRT/CT/nuclear medical examination of your child, document everything, even the reaction of the child toward the hospital equipment and the atmosphere, because most often it is accompanied by flashbacks. If you don´t do this, you have no proof in your hands and most often your child is taken away. And you have any questions, you can reach me on Facebook or over the website traumabasedmindcontrol.com

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: Awesome. Thanks for coming on and we hope to speak to you soon – it´s been a great discussion.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Thank you for having me and I wish you a nice evening in Virginia then.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: You too. Thanks for coming on and thanks just the level of bravery it takes to come forward on this (…) and this is the kind of courage and get this rich and nefarious elites that are manipulating humanity from the shadows (…) this is where it starts.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Yes, thank you too, for your work, I think we all are brave here, doing something, we all chose our topic, I chose mine your chose yours. Thank you for having me.

&nbsp;

Dan&amp;Don: No problem, talk to you soon.

&nbsp;

Andrea: Bye!

&nbsp;

&nbsp;
<div class=”” data-block=”true” data-editor=”fndgf” data-offset-key=”f6bpa-0-0″>
<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”f6bpa-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”f6bpa-0-0″>[Round table with Dan and Don from Reality Brief – realitybrief.net, recorded, May 4th, 2019 with English subtitles]</span></div>
</div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”f83dd-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”f83dd-0-0″>Uploaded with the permission from Reality Brief – the original round table recording is to be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BAPaD_YqdQ</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”bts0j-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”bts0j-0-0″> </span></div>
</div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”79l84-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”79l84-0-0″>Mentioned links/persons/vids:</span></div>
</div>
<div class=”” data-block=”true” data-editor=”fndgf” data-offset-key=”ahqsq-0-0″>
<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”ahqsq-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”ahqsq-0-0″>Pizzagate torture of toddler (TRIGGER): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0A1Kb30IN0</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”22ton-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”22ton-0-0″>Nancy Schaefer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Schaefer</span></div>
</div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”fbdkq-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”fbdkq-0-0″>Sigismund von Braun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigismund_von_Braun</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”8uon-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”8uon-0-0″>Bill Clinton:</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”77d0r-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”77d0r-0-0″>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnudZeQI5TI</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”99pvt-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”99pvt-0-0″>The forensic chapter on traumabasedmindcontrol.com:</span></div>
</div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”4etut-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”4etut-0-0″>Symptoms: http://traumabasedmindcontrol.com/index.php/presentation-of-symptoms-of-toddlers-and-children/?lang=en</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”1ucp7-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”1ucp7-0-0″>Istanbul protocol: http://traumabasedmindcontrol.com/index.php/istanbul-protokoll-fuer-kleinkinder-bei-folterverdacht/?lang=en</span></div>
</div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”atp5b-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”atp5b-0-0″>Guidelines for questioning toddlers and children in torture cases: http://traumabasedmindcontrol.com/index.php/leitfaden-zur-befragung-von-kleinkindern-bei-folterverdacht/?lang=en</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”3893v-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”3893v-0-0″> </span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”89r52-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”89r52-0-0″>Background:</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”7df2t-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”7df2t-0-0″>Andrea Sadegh is the founder and owner of traumabasedmindcontrol.com – network against torture on toddlers and children, who came into the topic of MK ultra over her son, who was taken by Austrian government into governmental care not even 3 years old after his mind fracture and basis programming became visible within horrible flashbacks. </span></div>
</div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”6ei0f-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”6ei0f-0-0″>Latest since then, Andrea was targeted by Intel, as the boy was able to name and recognize 72+ perpetrators with close ties to (inter)national secret service and politics: A dangerous constellation in the birth country of Adolf Hitler, were Nazi operatives are still in charge, cooperating with Mossad, CIA and Russian services on a large scale. </span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”cr58r-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”cr58r-0-0″> </span></div>
</div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”3ii4p-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”3ii4p-0-0″>Instead of examining the child in detail over MRT/CT/nuclear medical examination/psychiatrically Austrian government decided to solve the situation in Nazi style: “The more harm we do to the child and his protective mother, the less anyone will be able to believe it.”</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”mrn2-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”mrn2-0-0″>So, while the small one has been ongoing tortured every single day since February 2012, after he was taken away, Andrea was hunted down by intel over the whole globe, survived several murder attempts. In January 2019, a picture of him was sent to her, showing him with no teeth, meaning the boy lost all his adult teeth, due to torture, not even 10 years old. This besides other injuries already brought to court in 2011, like the destruction of his inner genitals (castration), needles in his tooth root canal, coccyx, brain stem, etc. besides his massive DID/MPD (deliberately caused multiple personality disorder). Instead of helping – at least the boy – Austrian government was eager to strategically entangle thousands via joining the ritualistic torture of the boy as well via hiding the crime by any means.</span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”5nola-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”5nola-0-0″>Over the years Andrea found out, that not just her beloved son was in an MK ultra-program, but she herself, with a life that has been a total MK slave biography, master-designed by Joseph Mengele himself, including Black Sun programming at the Wewelsburg Castle in Germany, time travel operations, Intel, Montauk chair, SSP, bloodlines, breeding, strategic entanglement, portal teleportation. </span></div>
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<div class=”_1mf _1mj” data-offset-key=”f05nm-0-0″><span data-offset-key=”f05nm-0-0″>Andrea has a master’s degree in comparative literature and German, as well a post-graduate in statistics. She is trained as a trainer, coach, counsellor and is one of the experts on toddlers and children in MK/SRA/child trafficking programs, as well in the modus operandi in involuntary cases. She can be found on Facebook as well on www.traumabasedmindcontrol.com and www.andreasadegh.com</span></div>
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Istanbul Protocol for toddlers and children

The Istanbul Protocol (full title: Manual on the Effective Investigation and Documentation of Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment) represents the United Nations’ standard for training professionals to appraise persons who make allegations of having been tortured or mistreated, for examining cases of alleged torture and for reporting such findings to the judiciary and other investigative authorities.

75 doctors, psychotherapists, lawyers and human rights activists, together representing forty organisations from fifteen different countries, worked on the protocol. In August 1999, they gave the fully worked out Istanbul Protocol to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. The numerous authors include, among others, amnesty international, Human Rights Watch, the International Red Cross, Physicians for Human Rights, the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, the Treatment Centre for Torture Victims in Berlin, as well as other therapy centres in South Africa, Chile and the USA, various university institutes, the Turkish, Danish, British, Indian and German Chambers of Medicine, as well as the World Medical Association, and, last but not least, the IRCT.

In mid-2004, the Istanbul Protocol was published as part of the UN’s Professional Training Series at the office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights as a manual for effective medical examination, and is meanwhile available in several languages. The Istanbul Protocol presents the current possibilities for verifying the traces of torture, thereby differentiating between methods of diagnosing physical symptoms of the skin, face, teeth, chest, abdomen, muscles, skeletal system, urogenital tract and nervous system resulting from various forms of abuse, and the verification of the psychological consequences of torture.

Despite the painstakingly compiled, well laid-out and detailed information which it contains, this manual for conducting examinations is virtually never used in cases (of suspicion) of the rape and torture of (very young) children. Having combed through the Protocol in detail, the network traumabasedmindcontrol.com has compiled a rapidly readable document offering procedural guidelines for lawyers, doctors and parents protecting their children.

 

Recommended procedure for conducting a visual examination of the child in a case of suspected torture/sexual abuse

Before beginning a thorough visual examination of the child’s body, you should take the following steps:

First, acquire a precise overview of any illnesses, medical interventions or accidents that the child has had before you definitely suspect an assault. Safeguard the relevant documents, as pieces of evidence that will be needed later on, from being accessed by outside parties.

Think about what clothes the child was wearing during the abuse. Keep safe any pieces of clothing that the child may have been wearing.

If you suspect that your child has been abused using specific everyday objects from your home, you should likewise safeguard these pieces of evidence from getting lost and manipulated.

Having taken the above steps, you can now examine the child in an unclothed state. You should conduct this examination in a systematic way, and thereby try to convey a sense of calm to the child. Record the entire examination on video. In addition, take photographs of any signs of abuse found on the child’s body in a full-body shot and a close-up shot.

Bring in at least one witness of as impeccable repute as possible. For example, persons with expertise in the field of medicine (doctors, nurses) or in criminalistics (police, lawyers) will, as expert witnesses, be regarded as particularly credible when they later testify in court.

 

Examining the Skin

Bear in mind that generalised skin diseases in a child can be caused by torture, heat, the effects of deliberate exposure to very strong light or the forced consumption of toxic substances. As soon as you discover a skin disease, take a close-up photograph of it. Measure the skin anomaly. Record a detailed description of the location, shape, size and surface structure of the findings. Look out for injury patterns such as grazes, abrasions, contusions, lacerations, puncture wounds and burns (which can be caused by cigarettes, heated instruments and electrical diodes). Examine the scalp of your child for hair loss, and inspect their fingers for pulled-out fingernails. Take into account that skin damage can heal in 6-8 weeks.

Changes in the skin show up in the form of scratches and abrasions. If, on the other hand, contusions and bruises are visible, these are signs of burst blood vessels. Contusions may have a visible pattern and may thus even show the outlines of the object used to abuse the child. As soon as contusions cause bruises and subside, they go through a series of changes in colour. Most bruises initially appear dark blue, violet or crimson. If the child attests to having been abused, but you cannot yet establish the existence of a contusion during the visual examination of the child, then examine the child again a few days later: because contusions that lie deeper under the tissues of the skin surface do not become visible until later on.

If the abuse of a child has caused a laceration, it will usually be possible to verify scarring. The same applies to burns.

This is the type of torture which most frequently leaves permanent changes in the skin. Burns caused by cigarettes often leave 5-10 millimetre circular or oval scars with indistinct edges. A burns inflicted with a pre-heated object causes a scar which frequently reflects the shape of the instrument of torture. If the nail bed has been burned, that will cause the subsequent growth of thin, striated and deformed nails.

Traumatic injuries from skin punctures or cuts come about when the surface of the skin is pierced or slit open with a sharp object. Look out for even the tiniest puncture wounds, deep scratches or cuts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Examining the face

Palpate the tissue of the face to find evidence of a possible fracture, swelling or the crunching of bones (crepitation). If the child complains of pain anywhere, document the site concerned with photographs, accompanied by measurements. A subsequent computer tomography (CT) is the best way of diagnosing broken bones in the face.

 

Examining the ears

Eardrum injuries, in particular, are the subsequent result of violent blows to the child’s head. One form of this type of torture is the so-called “telefono”, in which both ears are simultaneously dealt a blow with the palms of both hands. The pressure on the outer ear canal can thereby cause the eardrum to burst. Liquid may be found in the middle ear or the outer ear of the child. An ear specialist can diagnose such a discharge from the ear through a laboratory analysis and offer diagnostic confirmation of the suspicious nature of these injury patterns. At the same time, it is essential to test the child for possible hearing loss. The fracture site can be located later on through MRT or CT.

Examining the eyes

A wide variety of eye injuries can occur during the torture of the child. Look out for bleeding and redness, and to a possible dislocation of the lens.

Document this suspicion and then get it confirmed through a diagnosis from an eye specialist. In addition, a computer tomography (CT) can diagnose eye-socket fractures. Magnet resonance tomography (MRT) can verify injury to the soft parts of the eyeball through a high-resolution sonogram.

 

Nose

You should carefully examine the child’s nose for any misalignment, crunching and displacement of the nasal cartilage. In a case where there is suspicion of a simple nasal fracture, having a standard X-ray done can provide firm proof. In the case of a complicated nasal fracture, you should at least have a CT carried out.

 

Jaw, oral cavity and neck

Fractures and dislocations of the lower jaw can be caused by violent blows to the child’s head. If blows have been inflicted on the lower half of the face or the jaw, the result can be a jaw joint syndrome (disorder of the masticatory apparatus). Indicators of this are headaches, toothache or cracking sounds when chewing. Look into the open mouth of the child, watching out for any injuries in the oral cavity and any bleeding of the gums. In particular, the pain caused by the electrical current may have made the child bite their tongue, gums or lips.

In case of suspicion, one should then get a dental anamnesis drawn up. Fractures of the lower jaw can be precisely diagnosed through X-rays and MRT.

 

Ribcage and abdomen

Carefully palpate the ribcage and abdomen, both in front and over the back. Blows and kicks can cause not only injuries and tearing of the inner organs, but also internal haematomas. In case of suspicion, you should get an ultrasonic test, CT and bone scintigraphy (examination of areas with increased bone metabolism by a medical specialist) carried out.

 

Musculoskeletal system

Carefully carry out a mobility test on each of the child’s joints. Complaints of pain when moving, as well as any suspicion of dislocations and fractures, justify subsequently getting an X-ray done. Injuries to tendons, ligaments and muscles, on the other hand, are best verified through an MRT.

 

Central and peripheral nervous System

If possible, you should document any disruptions of motor function, gait and coordination that you detect. The same applies to wristdrop and to weakness of the arms (caused by disorders of the tendon reflexes). Arrange for a radiological examination of the brain and the posterior cranial fossa to be carried out through MRT.

 

Fractures

Any fractures found involve injury to the bone substance caused by a blunt mechanical force. An x-ray examination of newly fractured sites should be carried out by a specialist in trauma radiology.

 

Traumatic brain injury

Traumatic brain injury is one of the most common consequences of the use of violence.

Signs of this are, for example, bruises on the scalp. After a child has been subjected to blows to the head, they may subsequently complain of prolonged headaches. Carefully palpate the child’s scalp and the nape of the neck to detect local swelling. Swelling of soft tissue can be diagnosed through CT or MRT.

Violently shaking a child’s body can cause brain injuries, although it usually leaves no visible signs of injury. Try to recall whether, in the past, the child ever complained of recurring headaches or whether you noticed any deficits, for example in the form of disorientation. Document the period(s) concerned. If these types of symptoms recur, record them on video. As far as possible, you should ensure that you always have your video camera ready to hand for this purpose. Bear in mind the risk of a cerebral oedema, subdural haematoma (bleeding between the meninges and the brain) or retinal bleeding caused by the use of violence.

 

Trauma to the chest and Abdomen

Fractured ribs in the child can be a sign of blows to the chest. Here, tears in the lungs or what is called “pneumothorax” (air in the pleural cavity) can arise. Violence inflicted on this region of the body can also cause fractures of the spine. A CT can diagnose bleeding caused by a lung fracture, or an accumulation of fluid in the abdomen. Other potential injuries to the abdomen are haematomas of the spleen or acute kidney failure. An ultrasonic examination is particularly helpful for verifying any haematomas of the spleen.

 

Blows to the feet

Blows to the feet are often inflicted by means of a club or cane. As applying blunt force to the feet is meanwhile a recognised method of torture, the technical term “falanga” (trauma to the feet) has become established. The most severe consequence of falanga is compartment syndrome (disordered blood flow to the tissue) in the foot. Damage to muscles or vascular obstruction can, however, also occur. As these injuries are usually limited to soft tissue, CT or MRT represent the surest methods for carrying out a subsequent radiological documentation of such injuries. Blows to the feet can ultimately cause chronic disability. As a result, not only can walking itself be chronically painful, but the tarsal bones themselves can also become either fixed and immobile (spastic) or too loose. You should therefore carefully palpate the sole of each foot, paying attention to any hardened areas in the foot, as well as to any tearing, scarring and discolouration of the skin. Document all your findings. Try to recall whether, in the past, the child ever complained of pain when walking, or wanted to be carried to an abnormal extent, and whether you noticed any injuries to the soles of the feet.

 

 

 

Torture by Suspension

Suspending (hanging up) victims is a frequently encountered method of torture that causes extreme pain but leaves hardly any visible evidence. Different forms of this torture are practised. Often, victims are thereby hit or mistreated in other ways. Possible complications that can subsequently arise include weakness of muscles of the arms or hands, deafness, loss of tendon reflexes, pain sensitivity or insensitivity to touch. In addition to neurological injury, torn ligaments in the shoulder joints, dislocation of the shoulder blade or injury to the shoulder muscles can also occur. Similar patterns of injury can result if the victim is not suspended but is instead held fast to force them to hold a certain position (bent over, overstretched) for a prolonged period.

Source: Lynn Schirmer

Carefully move the shoulders, arms and wrists of the child. Look out for any disruptions of motor function and any swelling. In case of suspicion, arrange for a neurological examination of the muscle tissue to be carried out.

 

Torture by electric shock

Here, an electrical current is passed through electrodes that are attached to a place on the body. The most usual points of contact used for this purpose are the hands, feet, fingers, toes, ears, nipples, the mouth, the lips and the genital area. Particularly in the genital area, the resulting pain is known to be unbearable. As all the muscles located along the flow of the current contract in a cataleptic-like manner, shoulder dislocations and diseases of the nerve roots (radiculopathy) can occur. However, the type and time of the torture, the strength of the current and the electric power cannot be determined with certainty through physically examining the victim. The traces of burns caused by electrical current are usually reddish-brown, circular wounds with a diameter of only 1-3 mm. You should therefore pay particularly close attention to the surface of the child’s skin.

Torture inflicted on the teeth

Torture inflicted on the teeth can take the form of tooth fracture, drilling the roots of teeth or pulling teeth out. It can also take the form of electric shocks to the teeth. Basically, when examining the child, you should always check the oral cavity. Use a torch or other additional source of light for doing this. Take photographs of any injuries to the gum and inflammations of the oral mucosa that you discover. Try to recall whether, in the past, the child ever complained of pain while chewing. Violent blows to the head can cause restrictions of jaw movement and muscle spasms.

 

 

Torture by near-suffocation (“submarino“)

This method of torture normally leaves no visible traces and the child recovers physically from it quite quickly. Common methods include:

 

– Putting a plastic bag over the head

– Forcibly blocking the nose and mouth

– Strangulation, with subsequent inhalation of pepper, dust or cement

This torture can cause various subsequent complications. Known complications in this context are nosebleeds, bleeding from the ears, facial bleeding due to congestion, acute or chronic respiratory problems. Look out for what are called “petechiae” (pinhead-sized spots of bleeding) on the surface of the skin. Forcibly ducking the head under water, which is often intentionally contaminated with faeces or vomit, can likewise be the cause of a child fearing suffocation. The inhalation of water can subsequently lead to pneumonia. You should therefore pay close attention to any skin abrasions, strangulation marks and contusions on the neck.

 

 

 

Sexual torture, including rape

Sexual torture already begins with the forced nakedness of the child. Furthermore, verbal sexual threats, verbal abuse and mockery are likewise one component of sexual torture, as they debase the victim still more as a human being. Subsequent penetration of the child always involves the risk of infection with sexually transmitted diseases. In the event of sexual violence, electric shocks and blows are specifically inflicted on the genitals of male children.

Remember that the sexual assault may also have occurred a considerable time ago. Look out for any bleeding in the anal area, to pain when the child passes stool, to sudden incontinence (weakness of the bladder/intestine), and to the occurrence of dysuria (pain when passing urine), diarrhoea or constipation.

 

It is a different story if you are unexpectedly faced with the suspicion of a recent assault. In such a case, you should additionally look out for bruises and petechiae, which can be caused by sucking or biting the child. If sexual torture is perpetrated using relatively large objects, particularly in order to penetrate the anus, the probability of verifiable injury is very strong.

Contact a forensic laboratory and have a smear test carried out. Sperm can be identified for up to five days on materials, and for up to three days using material obtained from the rectum. Take photographs of any patterns of injury that you discover and, above all, safeguard these records from being accessed by outside parties.

 

Examining the genitals of male children

Torture in the genital region by pinching, twisting (torsion) of the scrotum, or by directly inflicting trauma in this region, is always particularly painful for the child. Here, vasodilation (hyperaemia), visible swelling and bleeding of the skin over larger areas (ecchymosis) can be observed.

Accumulations of fluid due to decreased drainage of the urine around the testicles (hydrocele) may also occur. Try to recall whether, in the past, your child ever experienced severe pain when passing urine or had to have medical treatment for a urinary tract infection. Remember that scars on the skin of the scrotum and the penis may be difficult to discern. The presence of scarring thus usually indicates that the child has suffered considerable trauma. Take photographs of the scarring and later get these indications confirmed through a urological diagnosis by a children’s urologist.

 

Examining the anal region

After an anal rape or the introduction of objects into the anus, the child can suffer bleeding for days or weeks. This can subsequently lead to constipation and other gastrointestinal problems for the child. Look out for any tearing of the mucus membrane in the child’s anus (known as “anal fissures”).

 

 

Further signs of past anal penetration are also rectal tearing, with or without bleeding. Pay close attention to any scarring and a purulent discharge from the child’s anus. Take photographs of these findings and, in the event of significant indications, get a diagnosis from a dermatologist and a doctor who specialises in gastroenterology.

 

Evidence of psychological damage to the child

A child who has been tortured can experience vivid flashbacks, both when fully conscious and in their sleep. Where possible, record these by video and get a witness to be present.

 

Bear in mind that witness statements have markedly more power if the persons concerned are not members of your family. If you are ready to consider having an unknown person as a witness to a flashback, try to ascertain their identity and to ensure their willingness to make a subsequent statement. Consider further whether your child has displayed any behavioural changes such as:

 

– Flat affect (social withdrawal, memory gaps, avoidance of certain places and people)

– Extreme excitability (sleep disorders, irritability, outbreaks of rage, startle responses)

– States of fear and sudden concentration problems

– Shortness of breath, feelings of dizziness, sweating

– Appetite disorders, sudden loss of interest in hitherto regular activities

– Feelings of worthlessness and personal guilt

– Tiredness, loss of energy, deficits in motor function and a general slowing-down

– Somatic complaints (headaches, backache)

– Psychotic reactions (delusions, auditory, optical and olfactory hallucinations)

– Having bizarre ideas, paranoia, fear of being stalked or pursued

– PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder)

 

 

Concealment

It is important to be aware that torturers may try to conceal their actions. In order to avoid leaving physical evidence of blows, the torture is often inflicted using wide, blunt objects, and torture victims are sometimes covered with a carpet or, in the case of falanga, are wearing shoes in order to distribute the force of individual blows. The twisting of limbs, crushing injuries and suffocation are likewise forms of torture intended to create maximum pain and maximum suffering with minimum detectability. This is also the reason why wet handkerchieves are used when administering electric shocks.

 

 

 

Sources:

Andreas Frewer; Holger Furtmayr; Kerstin Krása; Thomas Wenzel (Ed.)

Istanbul Protocol. The Investigation and Documentation of Torture and Human Rights Violations. Published by V&R unipress: Göttingen, 2015 (2nd revised edition) http://www.v-r.de/_uploads_media/files/9783737000307_frewer_oa_wz_010746.pdf

http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/training8Rev1en.pdf

Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul-Protokoll (Accessed on 31.07.2017)

Photographs: Internet

 

 

Translation by Verity Speedwell.